The Civic Champion: The Navigating Disruption Podcast

In this episode:

Host: Shakeel Bharmal, Executive Coach – The Ivey Academy
Guest: Maiwand Rahyab, Founder of Resilient Societies 

---

Other ways to listen:

• Apple Podcasts
• Spotify Podcasts 

Related Links

• Follow Maiwand on LinkedIn
• Resilient Societies
• Aga Khan Foundation

---

About The Navigating Disruption Podcast

On The Navigating Disruption Podcast, we engage with intriguing professionals from diverse backgrounds to explore how leaders can create a more meaningful impact in these challenging times. We delve into our guest’s personal and career experiences to uncover connections between life and leadership in complexity and ambiguity. 

In an era where the pace of change and uncertainty permeates every aspect of life, predicting the outcomes of our decisions and actions is increasingly complex. This podcast offers valuable insights, reflections, and practical advice to help leaders, teams, and organizations survive and thrive amidst the disruption. Join us as we navigate these turbulent waters together. 

Note: The podcast is not produced by The Ivey Academy. The Navigating Disruption Podcast is produced and edited by Shakeel Bharmal and Lindsay Curtis. Music and lyrics courtesy of Late Night Conversations.

---

About the Host

Shakeel Bharmal is an Executive Coach, Facilitator, and Instructor with The Ivey Academy. From his early career in sales and marketing, strategy consulting and general management to his more recent roles as a chief operating officer and leadership coach, Shakeel has always been curious about how leaders can use their humanity and professional acumen to make a positive impact on the people around them. In this podcast, as a lifelong learner, he strives to use that curiosity to serve his listeners. 

---

Episode Transcript

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Today's guest has lived through more disruption than most of us can imagine. And yet, he keeps moving forward, building, leading, and inspiring change. Maiwand Rahyab is the Founder and CEO of Resilient Societies, an organization supporting human rights defenders and civil society activists in some of the world's toughest environments right here from Canada. 

But his journey to this point is nothing short of remarkable. He grew up in Afghanistan, where his passion for civic engagement started as a friend of his wanted to plant trees. That early spark led him to lead civil society initiatives, serve in government reform, and even run underground schools for girls when the Taliban banned their education. Then when his life was at risk and the Taliban took over the country once again, he had to leave everything behind and start over. 

Now in Canada, Maiwand is rebuilding, not just his life, but a global movement to support those fighting for democracy and human rights. Along the way, he joined the Aga Khan Foundation's Global Leadership Program, which is where our paths crossed, and I got to know him a bit better. 

In this conversation, we talk about what drives him, what he has learned about leading through uncertainty, and how programs like AKF's Global Leadership Program can help shape the next generation of change makers. Enjoy the conversation. 

[MUSIC PLAYING] 

Welcome to the Navigating Disruption podcast. I'm Shakeel Bharmal, your host. As the founder of OceanBlue Strategic, an Executive Coach at The Ivey Academy, and a partner with The Summit Group, I spend my days exploring the intricacies of leadership, customer relationships, and strategic thinking. 

Here, we connect with fascinating individuals from various walks of life to discover how we can make a more significant impact in these complex times, as leaders, colleagues, and sales professionals, and more importantly, how we can grow as human beings. 

[MUSIC PLAYING] 

Before we begin today's episode, I acknowledge that we are recording from the traditional, unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabe people. As I am a stone's throw from the meeting of the Ottawa, Gatineau, and Rideau rivers, it's important to recognize this area's rich history as a gathering place. 

For hundreds or probably thousands of years, where these rivers meet has been a site of exchange of goods, yes, but also ideas and cultures, and they continue to flow through this, our virtual community, shaping our interactions and hopefully our future. 

[MUSIC PLAYING] 

So, Maiwand, it's really nice to actually be in this conversation. I love these conversations because rarely in this world do we have 30 to 45 minutes of dedicated time just to get to know each other. It doesn't seem to happen anymore. And so that's what I found these opportunities to be really rewarding for me to get to know people a bit better. The first time we met was over coffee? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Yes. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. Do you remember that? Shortly after you settled into Canada, settled may be a strong word, but you moved to Canada and we got to know each other. You shared with me some of your aspirations. Asked me for advice. I don't know if I had any advice that actually prepared me to see the kind of success you've had in a very short period of time with the things you've done. 

And so I know that my listeners are probably very curious to understand what that is. So before we get into that story, let's get to know each other a little bit better. I love to open up these conversations with a bit of reflection. I have a strong belief that, oftentimes, our early childhood experiences set the stage for who we become as adults and as leaders. 

So my first question, it's a big question, is if you were to reflect back on your childhood, is there a particular experience, memory, person that you think that pops into your mind as something that was quite influential for you? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Sure. Thank you, Shakeel. And, yeah, I think when I look at my childhood, one experience that I would say shaped my whole life and the way I look at life and my career and my passion and things I want to do was when I was probably in grade, I think, seven in school that I met a friend, a new student that had come from another school to our class, and he joined our class. 

And he was talking about that he's in touch with an organization in the UK at that age, and this was probably 1990s kind of, grade seven. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Grade seven. 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Yeah. Yeah. Grade seven. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: 12 years old. 12 or 13. Yeah. 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Yeah. And that it's a voluntary organization. And at that time, he was writing a letter, and then five months later, he would get a response. There was no email and all of that, so. And that he wanted to do some voluntary work based on inspiration that he got from this UK-based volunteer organization. He wanted to do some voluntary work back in our neighborhood. 

And he asked me if I want to join him, and I said, yes, love to do that. So we started initially, I think, with tree planting, getting trees from the municipality and planting it around the school area and other places voluntarily. 

And I think that when I look back at my life and where the motivation and the passion for civic engagement and civil society comes, it is really-- it was that moment or that time that I think instilled in me a sense of civic engagement and participation and giving to the community, so. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Amazing. So it was a peer. It wasn't an adult or a teacher or anybody, it was a peer, somebody your age that gave you that initial idea to give back to the world, to engage in civil society? Amazing. 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Yeah. I think, yeah, it was my classmate, my age. We're still in touch and good friends, and I don't think I would have been the person I am or have done the kind of work I've done if I had not that discussions and friendship and working together at that time with him, so. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Amazing. So let's give some context to this. You grew up in Kabul, Afghanistan? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: I grew up in Mazar-i-Sharif in Northern Afghanistan, but then-- 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Northern Afghanistan. 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Yeah. But moved to Kabul later on. But all my high school, university was in Mazar-i-Sharif in the North. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: OK. So can you paint a picture for me or for our listeners, when you think of the context, the circumstances of your childhood, of growing up there, how would you describe that? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: It was different. So I lived in different political periods in my childhood. So I grew up in a relatively stable situation, like my first, let's say, 10 years. It was more during Soviet times, and life, at least, in the city centers, were very stable. Schools were available and there was a certain level of equality and access to social services and all of that for everyone. 

And then with the collapse of the Soviet-supported regime in Afghanistan, and then the Mujahideen at that time came to power and Civil War started, and again then things got really, really bad. I remember moving from one place of the city to the other place just to be safe from air bombardments that were taking place in our city. And then after that, Taliban came to power, so it was a different, a totally different situation. 

So I would say there were beautiful moments of my childhood with family and friends. And then with the Civil War and all that comes with the Civil War, with the displacement, with poverty, with issues of repression and ethnic divide within communities and all of that, then I think I would say that after probably grade five and six then life became much more difficult. And it was a war-torn country with so many divides and tensions in it as well. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: When you think back and reflect on it, does it feel like it was an overnight change, a sudden change, or did you see it start to happen and then get worse and worse? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: It definitely was not an overnight change. It's been a process where tensions are out there, the political and dynamics play. But the challenge always is that until the big, final change, for lack of a better word, happens when everything turns upside down, as human beings, we don't think that's going to happen. 

As things happen gradually, we feel that, you know what, it's not going to get worse. It's going to get better. It's going to get better. And we become not caring enough about it and taking action because we think, this is the worst and things can get better, that life is normal and tend to take things for granted despite seeing that things are moving underneath. 

Yeah. So I would say the changes back then, all the changes, in fact, in Afghanistan, none has happened overnight. But people were not prepared for this sudden shock, like, the climax, the big change that would overthrow everything. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. So I'm putting pieces together now. You're experiencing this as a young person. A couple of years later, this friend inspires you and you essentially have now made your career all about strengthening civil society. I'm going to ask you a big question now. When you think about your role or purpose on this earth, how do you how do you think of that? How do you describe it? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: That's a hard question. When I look at my purpose in life and the role that I would like to play in the world, I grew up very early age with civic engagement and trying to contribute to the society and engage people, communities in the decisions that affects their lives. From a very young early age, that's been my main focus. And since then, that's what I've been doing in different shapes and forms. But that has been the essence of what I've been focusing on. 

So when I look at the future and my role and the legacy, for me, if I can play a role, and I hope to play a role, in making sure that the people, the citizens, irrespective of the country that they live, have the agency and the power and information to make informed choices about their life and the rules and governance that govern their lives. 

In a meaningful way, without fear of repression, and without fear of being oppressed and killed or expelled from the country. What are those fears? If they can express their views and influence decisions in a systematic manner, I think that I will sleep well and be pleased with my contribution. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Interesting. So, look, this is my interpretation, and it'll be a very simplistic interpretation is, it sounds to me that you really believe in a bottom-up, proactive, and the word resilient will come up later, but a bottom-up, proactive, resilient approach to living on this earth for all people. 

Regardless of the regime, regardless of whether you have an authoritarian, a malevolent dictator, or maybe even a positive environment, regardless of those circumstances, still finding a way for a regular person to feel hope, courage, the ability to communicate, the ability to express themselves. That sounds like what you're talking about. Is that right? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: That's correct. I see hope in almost any circumstances. And I think no matter what circumstances, there's always opportunities as well to do something. Now, if the environment is better, you can do a lot. But if the circumstances are not as conducive, you can still do something. You can do a little, but still you can do something. 

And that hope, that confidence in the future that there's still hope that still you can contribute for yourself, your family, but also for the broader community, I think that is what has thrived my life and my focus in career. And that's partly because I grew up-- I was in grade 11, I think, when the Taliban took over my city in the north, in Mazar-i-Sharif. 

As many other people, I could have left the country and go abroad. But I decided to stay, started a youth group that did work in addition to-- while school was off and there was fighting and all of that. So most of my time in those years were spent on bringing young people together, trying to find ways to contribute and give hope despite the very difficult circumstances that we were living at that time. 

So, yeah, and I believe, yeah, still now, I know the world is a difficult place now, but I think there's still opportunities to do better. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Amazing. Amazing. What a great mindset you have. Take me to a moment. Let's pretend that I'm one of these youth that you're trying to engage in a youth group. What is your approach to pull them in or get them involved, in some way, productively into a group that you've created? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Back then when I was in my-- I was 18 probably or 17 or 16, I think at the time, that since I was engaged with much smaller scale young people and probably people that I knew, friends, classmates, people from the neighborhood, it was more about leveraging our existing relationships, friendship to engage people in community activities, and then the circles started growing up. 

But later on, probably when we started doing more organized work, I think the one thing that we tried to focus on was this idea of being connected and a sense of belonging, connection, and meaningfulness. I think we were-- at that time, we were probably not using these terms. I probably didn't know what these terms and concept meant. 

But what I was actually doing, now that I reflect back, what we were actually doing was really trying to provide people, young people, with this idea that they belong to something bigger than themselves or their own personal interest. And I think that drove me, that drove our work and my personal work then. And I think even now when I look at things that I do, I think, for me, creating a sense of community that cared about certain cause is really, really critical. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. So creating a sense of community is something that's really evident in what you describe. But it also sounds like, a very early age, you were trying to help people get a sense of purpose, of something, as you said, bigger than themselves to be dedicated to. What a gift. What a gift you were giving these people. And I'm sure it's had such a ripple effect for them and their communities and the people they live with. 

So that early engagement, these youth groups and organizing youth groups, actually eventually turned into a profession, right? I've read that during the Taliban era, you ran home-based schools for girls. Girls who were prohibited from obtaining an education, by law, by the Taliban rule, they were prohibited, but you decided to run a home-based school for girls. What were the risks and the challenges you faced, and what motivated you to face those challenges and risks and do it anyway? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Yeah. So, yeah, unfortunately, that history is being repeated now and the Taliban is back in power, and, again, they have prohibited girls from going to school. But back then, I think my main motivation-- in fact, earlier you talked about how I help people find this sense of purpose and community. In fact, it was really two ways as well. 

So they also helped me find-- connect myself to a bigger purpose. And that's particularly true with starting home-based schools for girls because-- so in our youth groups, we had young women as well who were engaged with me, talking to me about-- we were all in different formats. We would talk and try to discuss issues we faced and problems we'd face. 

And then they told me that, you know what, we should-- because our initial work was more focused on environment and community, cleaning the streets, sanitation, those kind of works, but then when the Taliban took power and they prohibited girls from going to school, there was one day that the girl members of our groups told me, you know what, we need to do something about girls because they're going to miss out on so many years of schooling. 

And that idea that first came in one of our very friendly conversation triggered all of us to start this home-based schools. I started the first one in my house. So it was home-based. So we would start a class in our houses without letting any people know, and they would be either somebody from the family or a volunteer from another family would come and for free teach young girls school curriculum. 

And then there were displaced people from the neighborhood would come to this house for a couple of hours or more of classes. And it became a bigger network. So it started very small and a few houses in our neighborhood, and then later on we talked to more people and it expanded throughout the city. But also, other people, independent of our work, started doing the same. 

So back then, home-based classes were really quite-- became quite a common thing. Because it started probably with us or maybe other organizations that we didn't know, and then it, particularly in my city, became so common. And later on, UNICEF, the UN Children's Fund, got aware of our work, they came and gave us free notebooks and pens and stationery for students and all those things. So it got also recognitions. 

In terms of risk, I think the risk-- we were very young, so we were more-- we were not very risk averse. Our risk tolerance were quite, quite high. And we didn't have an option. The options were either to take some risk or let these people, this young girls lose years of education. 

So, I mean, now that I look back at those and think about those days, from my risk matrices that now we use, I think what motivated and what helped us manage the risk or become risk tolerant, for that matter, was that the benefits outweighed the risk. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. Amazing. Well, I'm just thinking, at that age, you said-- you used the words there, there really wasn't an option. It was either we basically let these girls suffer without an education and you were imagining what would their future be like, or you do something. 

And I just think about that, you say you weren't risk averse, but that takes a great deal of courage because you essentially were running a clandestine operation that's worthy of a spy movie that we watch on Netflix, but you were living and breathing that world, secretly creating pathways for these young girls to come to various homes, secretly creating ways for teachers to play this role, all very secretively. Like, it does feel a little bit like a spy movie. 

How did you do this without getting detected? I know you say that you were young, so you weren't risk averse, but there's got to have been a little bit of fear, if not amongst you, but some of the people that you were getting involved. What was it that you think kept you and the people that supported you going? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: I think we were afraid, but we had this thinking that we wouldn't be caught. I think now that I look back, at the time, I don't think we were thinking too much about the risks really being at that very young age. And I think part of it also goes to our families, that they also stood by us and let us do it at their risk as well. 

I think now that I think back about those days, I think it was the challenge that we were facing that helped us find the courage to do what we did. I think the challenge was too big, and that we thought that outweighs risk. 

And the other thing, I think, was also, it was our way of doing something, right? Being connected, contributing to-- sort of finding meaning in our life. At that time, I was not thinking about these terms, but now that I look back, I think it gave our lives meaning. 

And then, also, I think the idea that we were taking courage was inspired by each other. When I was looking at, for a young woman, walking like, let's say, 20 or 30 minutes in cold or hot weather to go teach younger kids in a house without any payment, for free, just to do that work, I think that would give me courage to do something, and then that-- so we were inspiring each other. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love that idea of inspiring each other. You know what, what's landing for me as you're saying this is idea that we talk a lot about democratic societies, and we keep saying that democracy is driven by the regime, the government at the time. 

And what I'm feeling from you, I don't know if you'd articulate it this way, but actually, democracy has less to do with the government regime and more about the resilience, the drive, the initiative, the optimism, the hope, the resilience of the people that are living in the society. Like power back to the people, if you will, yes? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: I agree. I think particularly now, that time has changed significantly, and more and more you see that even governments that were elected through democratic processes are becoming more and more autocratic. 

And I know generally, civil society and media are looked at as a check and balance on the power of government and other actors, but I tend to more and more-- as I think about the current state of the world and the repression and the backsliding on democracy, I think the role of civil society is beyond just check and balance. 

That actually, civil society has no option but to really take initiative, lead on, and actively advancing democratic values and protecting those values in a more proactive way. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Amazing. Amazing. So let's fast forward a little bit. Because you, obviously, went on from those days as a youth doing these incredible things, motivating, inspiring, and being inspired by others, you continued on with your education. 

And I guess in that period when the Taliban wasn't running the country, you took on a pretty significant leadership role with the Institute for Civil Society in Afghanistan, correct? So can you walk me through those, what was your education? Where did you go? What did you study? And then what was your role with the Afghanistan Institute for Civil Society? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Yeah. So my first two years of undergrad was under Taliban rule. The second two years in Mazar-i-Sharif was after they were ousted from the country. But then I went to the UK on a Chevening Scholarship, where I studied democracy and human rights, with a focus on Afghanistan. 

And then after that, I received a Fulbright Scholarship, where I went to the US and did my master's in public administration and international management, yeah, which kind of transformed the way I was-- I was very practical before, I was a practitioner, I was doing a lot of community work. 

And even when I was offered the opportunity to go to the US or UK, I was struggling like, does it really-- the question I was asking myself was, does it really add value to what I'm doing? I'm already working and I'm already involved. But then I made those choices. And, in fact, that helped me reflect on my work and become-- have more of a global perspective in terms of how things work or how things should work. 

And I went back to Afghanistan after my-- particularly after my Fulbright scholarship in the US, where I spent two years. I went back, and for a couple of years, I led the FOCUS Humanitarian Assistance, which is an organization part of the AKDN system, which focuses more on emergency response and community disaster management, but then joined US-based organizations for their office in Kabul. 

But eventually, as you said, I started-- I founded the Afghanistan Institute for Civil Society in partnership and support from the AKDN and the US government funding. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Oh, OK. OK. What was the mandate? What was the mandate of that organization that you founded? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: So the main focus of the organization or the main mandate was to increase the credibility and relevance of Afghanistan's civil society. And they were doing a few really big flagship programs, one of which was-- what we started for the first time in Afghanistan was a civil society certification program. 

It did not exist before in Afghanistan, where we used a certification system as a self-regulatory mechanism to assess organizations if they meet, let's say, the industrial standards for being transparent, for being financially solid, for having the right board of governance, and the right procedures, and the right HR system, and all of those foundations that is required for an efficient, effective, accountable organization. 

So we started that. That was a groundbreaking new thing that we started with this organization in Afghanistan, which still, by the way, operates in the country. And then we also started something we call the State of Enabling Environment for Civil Society annual report, which was a country level study we would conduct every year to assess the enabling environment, the laws, the regulations in the country, to what extent they are conducive to civil society support. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: So it sounds to me like you were seizing this moment, this period where the Taliban was not there to institutionalize some really good practices. Yeah? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Correct. Yeah. We wanted to make sure that civil society institutions are relevant, are transparent and credible, and more importantly, they're really actually delivering impact. 

And through this certification program or capacity building programs, our advocacy, we will engage in very high-level, impactful advocacy at the country level in Afghanistan with the government, making sure that laws and regulations and policies are supportive for civil society work. 

But also globally. Like we were involved at advocacy program at the UN, in DC, and in other countries globally to ensure that, globally, the civil society spaces is getting better as well. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. It strikes me, Maiwand, that you must write really good emails. And this is why I say this. If I think about the things you've made happen, the things you've mobilized, the organizations, engaging with the UN, engaging with various agencies and foundations in DC, getting scholarships, like, from your position where you were in Afghanistan, to make all of these things happen, required this ability to really get people to care and inspire people to engage. 

Probably not very different than what you were doing on the ground when you were organizing the youth groups, but doing it on this global scale is very different. What's your reaction to that? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: I think being genuine and authentic in your communication and in the messages and the way you advocate for certain causes or whatever it is. I think what has helped me throughout my career is believing in what I'm doing. And then it manifests itself in your emails, in your communications, in your policy advocacy work, whatever you do. 

I think when you genuinely believe in what you're doing and you're authentic about your positions and what you're looking at, and then also the ability to not give up. I think in the space that I have worked throughout my career, there's so many reasons that you must give up. 

And having that perseverance that you know what, this space that we work in and the challenges that we try to address, this requires enormous patience and perseverance and resilience, as you said, and to not feel that you have to stop. 

And I want to confess that there have been so many times in life that I was on the verge of giving up. But then at the last minute, moment, something has come up that has given me the energy to continue. So I think those are the things that I would say has guided my career so far. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. So I love that. Because you're being very human. You're not saying, hey, look, I'm a superhero. I'm just like everybody else. There are times I want to give up, but something else rises up with me, or I'm inspired by something I see, like you said, a teacher walking in the heat to get to volunteer. Something comes in your path. 

I would say that you also have to be ready to receive those signals and messages. So it's deep in your coding. And even when you feel like giving up, something in your body knows it's not right and it's looking for the signal to say, come on, keep going, keep going. So that's quite a gift that you've received in your wiring to be that way. 

I'm going to change the topic a little bit. Because you were making an impact in Afghanistan, setting up these institutions, and, of course, we all know what happened in the last few years in Afghanistan. The Taliban came back into rule. And that was the point at which you made a transition to come to Canada. 

Can you tell us a little bit about the circumstances? I mean, I don't want to have you share things that were too personally difficult, but whatever you feel comfortable sharing. What were the circumstances that led you to move to Canada? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Yeah. So, in fact, things started to really get bad in Afghanistan in 2019, 2020, and then 2021 which the country collapse. I left Kabul around three months or two months before that, before the collapse of the Kabul and the country. Because there were a assassination campaign that the Taliban had started against civil society leaders, media personalities, and some government officials as well. 

And I lost a few friends, particularly from civil society, also some friends in the government. And there were some other threats as well, imminent threats. So even I had to-- like, in the mornings, each morning, I had to take a different route to go to work because I would never know that there was going to be an attack in one of the routes that I would take to work. 

So it had become really difficult. And then I was advised to leave the country just for about a month or less. So I left Afghanistan to Turkey just a couple of months before the fall. My family, though, they took the last commercial flight out of Afghanistan on Friday, I think the August 13, I believe, and the country fell to the Taliban on the 15th. 

So, yeah, it was a tough moment, but we were able to move to Turkey, and we spent close to one year in Turkey. And then the Turkish government decided to not extend our permits to stay there. So last minute, we were just two hours before expiration of our permits, we were able to secure visas to go to Tbilisi in Georgia, and we were able to then spend another year, almost a year, in Georgia, before finally relocating to Canada. 

So it was quite a precarious two years of not knowing what's going to happen to you tomorrow, on top of the trauma of losing a country and being forced to leave. But again, when I look at me and my family's two years of traveling in different countries and different airports, when I look at that and then when I look at what happened to the country, I think that the challenges me and my family faced really pales…

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Oh my goodness. 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: …in comparison to what happened to the country. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. No, of course. And, of course, thoughts go out to all those that suffered, those that lost their lives. You were very close to that, but by the grace of God, you managed to find a path out. But I find it-- I'm listening to your story, and then to have you say others found it worse, I can't imagine the situation you're in. And just to reference, the Georgia you're speaking of is the country in Europe? Just so that my listeners are aware what we're talking about. 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Correct. Yeah. The country in Eastern Europe. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. And I don't know how you find your path from Afghanistan to Turkey, from Turkey to Georgia, and then from Canada. I think most people don't understand the complexity of getting the appropriate documents approvals to find your path here. 

So you arrived in Canada, and, I mean, here's what blows my mind. You arrive in Canada, and it doesn't take you very long to set your sights and ambitions on your path of building up civil society and building up democratic tendencies, feelings amongst people at the grassroots level. 

So if you could tell me those early days-- this is when we had coffee, I think, around this time where you had a vision, an idea. What was your original vision idea? And tell me how it's manifested now. 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Yeah. Sure. So, in fact, the idea of creating resilient society first came into my mind when I was in Georgia, and I happened to connect with Georgian civil society activists, but also with exiled communities of activists from Iran, from Central Asian countries. 

And I realized that the challenges that I go through is, unfortunately, becoming a common issue. That people from other countries, activists, human rights defenders, journalists, independent journalists, they are going through some similar situations. And I realized we need to take action. And that's where the initial idea of creating resilient societies as a new platform for supporting civic space and activists and journalists and human rights defenders was born. 

And then, even before coming to Canada, I spent time researching as to what's possible in the country. How can Canada be a space or a country that I can do this work when I'm there? So I started thinking about even before arriving. But once I arrived here, I think I made a-- 

I think I'm so pleased now that I made that decision to not look for a job and do something that may not give me as much of a sense of purpose and belonging than establishing an organization, a platform that would give me hope, meaning, but also addresses, I would say, one of the biggest challenges of our time, which is the repression of civic space polarization, the rise of autocratic states, democratic backsliding. 

These are the issues that are so critical in our time. And then I felt that based on my thinking and reflections, that the response to these challenges have missed a big opportunity to invest and leverage the power of activists, HRDs, and journalists in the front lines, both in exile, but also within clubs and closed-in spaces. 

So that's how it happened. That's where the idea came. And then we talked about it, and I reached out-- when I came here, I reached out to so many Canadians and other people to seek their counsel and advice, and to create something that is Canadian, but yet very global. 

Grounded in Canadian values of democracy, human rights, and pluralism and diversity, but with a global mandate. That's how this started. And the rest, it has been a very, very challenging and difficult, but yet fulfilling journey to date. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Well, let's put some time stamps on this. Do you remember around the time that we had coffee what that was? It was what, 2022? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Early 2023, I believe. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: OK. It was 2023. You did not have an organization established at that time. You had an idea. You were looking for contacts, connections, people that might help you, and I was probably one of many people you were meeting with. And from each conversation, you took ideas and contacts and made further connections and conversations. I know I introduced you to a couple of people. So that was the beginning of 2023. When did you actually first establish the organization? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: So the actual registration, which, to me, is not really the main point, it's more of a transaction, you go and register, the actual registration took place in January 2024. But however, the formal launch of the Resilient Societies happened in the later part of 2023. 

The same year that we talked, we were able to formally launch it in Ottawa with support from Cooperation Canada, which I'm very-- I was very privileged to meet Kate Higgins, the CEO of the Cooperation Canada. And we had a five-minute conversation, and she said-- and I asked her if she wants-- if she could incubate my idea and help me create this organization. 

And it didn't take her, I would say, more than five minutes to say, yes. And I think her support and guidance and counsel and her organization's support to helping us establish it was critical. And then I was also very, very, very fortunate and privileged to receive support and guidance from so many people in the Canadian, particularly, Ottawa space, who believed in the cause and in the idea and the promise of Resilient Societies and were generous with their time and ideas. 

Yeah. So we were launched formally in 2023, and we are still a very small organization, and a lot of time, a one-person show. But I think we have created a community that believes in our cause and also have confidence in what we can offer. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. Clearly. Clearly. I mean, I followed a little bit on LinkedIn. I've seen you've done events, you've engaged academics, tacticians, professionals all with the same idea, and they all want the same purpose. 

I mean, essentially, what you're doing in Canada with these other people that believe these things as you do, engaging government leaders, engaging, in some cases, diplomats, engaging other Canadians, you are doing the same things you were doing back in the day when you were organizing youth groups and home-based schools. 

And I just think of this seed that was planted by this young person that was trying to plant trees in Afghanistan. It's quite an incredible, incredible story, but one that actually doesn't get enough attention. Because, yes, I think you're remarkable, and what you've done is remarkable, but you're also very humble. And you speak with this idea that I'm just one of many, many millions of people all over the world that have the same desire and inclination and are doing amazing things everywhere. I certainly know that to be true. 

Which brings me to a bit of a closing conversation I wanted to have with you. Because I was working with the Aga Khan Foundation to develop a design, a leadership program specifically designed for Canadians, people in Canada that actually had a very strong belief that we had to play a bigger role as individuals in our organizations to elevate society all over the world, to elevate the way we think about global citizenship and leadership in a very, very disrupted space in the world. Obviously, all the things that you know of that are true. 

And so AKF is working on this [? greatness ?] program, I was blessed enough to get to play a role in designing and facilitating the program. And then when I showed up and I saw the first list of participants, I was thrilled to see your name on the list. So in this program, we had corporate leaders, government participants, we had nonprofit leaders from all sectors, Canadians from other parts of the world, as well as those that grew up in Canada, and you. 

So now you're in this group of Canadians that feels this way about making a difference in the world. Can you just tell us a little bit about that experience of being in this group with the AKF Global Leadership Program? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: It was definitely, I would say, a bit of a defining moment in some ways for me. Because it was my first year in the country, I didn't know Canada well, I didn't have a lot of contacts, and I had just started this new organization. 

And to have the opportunity to be together in a setting for a week with leaders from-- Canadian leaders from around the country, was an opportunity to help me feel connected with a community of leaders, thinkers, people that some of them were well-established, some of them are emerging into a field of work, so. 

And I felt that I felt a sense of confidence as well, that you know what, yeah, that's right, I'm new in this country, it's been just a year, I probably know very little about the country and the politics and the spaces, but then to be in the same room with this very great community of leaders from all over the country. And I didn't feel that I'm different. I come with this limited experience, being not new in the country. I felt that I'm part of the group. I can contribute to the conversation. 

The fact that yourself as the facilitators and also the other organizers and all the participants created a space that I felt, you know what, that I've been in the country for quite some time and I can confidently share my opinions, views without feeling that I may not have the authority to speak on certain matters because I have not been in the country and know really very little about it. I think that was-- that's the feeling I had initially about-- my initial thought about being part of this particular community. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. So I'm guessing that it didn't take long for you to feel very much at home in this group because, of course, everybody in the room had a story of their-- what motivated them to give back to society, what motivated them to think beyond the borders of Canada. 

We talked a lot about some of the challenges, even within Canada. Of course, we had leaders from-- Indigenous leaders involved in the program as well. So we learned a lot together. But you felt at home, it seems, in that group? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: I did. I did. And the learning, I would say, few take-away moments or breakthrough moments for me. One, just getting to know the diversity of opinions in that room for that week. We all had-- I knew about Canadian diversity. That's one of the main reasons that I felt, this is a country where-- this is going to be my adopted country. 

But in that room, we had people from different backgrounds with very strong opinions about matters and issues. And I learned a lot about that, particularly about the Indigenous history of Canada, which I didn't know much at the time. I'm still learning about it, of course. 

And then the issues that we discussed. For me, the big thing was just the acknowledgment, at that time, that we are living in unprecedented times, and that the global order is really shifting in a very fast-paced manner. And as Canadians, we need to adapt and become more proactive, was one of the key themes that were coming across all the conversation. 

And it's now with all that's happening around the world and our neighbors as well, we'll see how relevant those discussions of a year ago is today. I think now that I look back at a year from now and I see, you know what, these were the things that we were discussing and so, yeah. 

And then, also, one thing that occurred to me during that week was the power of collective wisdom. I know you were there as the resource person helping us do things and had a lot of experience and sharing your perspectives and all of that, but then there was a lot of wisdom was also coming from the conversation. 

That in all the group, we were discussing matters and we were disagreeing and then sharing opinions, and then reaching that acknowledgment. For me, it was to see that, as a group, as a collective, we are very, very powerful and can come up with ideas that individually we could have not. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to me, that's the premise of the program, right? This idea that we're living in a difficult time, but this is a time when people with perspective that may not feel they have power, but have wisdom, and experience, and desire for a better world, what happens if you bring them together? 

And I take my role as a facilitator very seriously, is that my job is to unlock the wisdom in the room and direct that wisdom towards an understanding, or an inspiration, or various actions that people can get involved with to actually change the course of the world. Because essentially, the course of the world, other than the forces not in our control right now in the short-term, climate change being an example, it's the people in the room that actually will drive change going forward. 

And you are a living example of that. There are many others in the program. The program itself is going to be launching a second cohort, and we will be looking for the next group of people to come through this program. What would be a message you would share to people that might be considering whether they participate in this program or not? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Well, first thing, I would say, please do participate. I learned a lot, connected with great people, and it helped me shape my perspective and thinking about the global environment that we live in, and also how Canada and Canadians respond to it. So it is just a great, great opportunity that people who are interested in global engagement and global affairs, global leadership, should not miss. 

And I also want to share a couple of advice on how to get the most out of it. One is really to be clear and specific as much as you can about your expectations. I think that where you are in your career, what do you want to get out of this five days of workshopping? 

So having that clarity and then communicating that with the program organizers is definitely going to help you a lot so that you know what you're looking for, and then the program is also going to be, to the extent possible, responsive to your needs. 

And second, also, too, in addition to having clarity, you also need to have realistic expectations in terms of, what is it that you can get out of it, and what is it that you can't get out of a five-day workshop? 

And then to also invest in learning and creating relationships with the other fellow participants. To me, I think that was one of the biggest, biggest part of the whole week was. And before and after, we are still talking to each other and we still have workshops and we still have our communities. To really have that-- spend a lot of time on building that relationships and then maintaining that relationships after the program. I think that's-- 

And you don't have to become friends and know everyone in the program. It's going to be a group of 20 or 30 people. But if you can be very proactive and who you want to connect with. And if you can create meaningful relationships with three to five people, I think that's a success and you can still maintain that. I think those are going to be critical. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Amazing. Amazing. I have a lot more questions, but believe it or not, we've been talking for an hour, and it's gone so fast. Maybe just let's share one thing, a couple of things with the audience. First, if they want to learn more about you, if they want to learn more about Resilient Societies, your organization, maybe get involved, where should they look? 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: They can definitely look at us at our Twitter, LinkedIn, and also website pages. We now have a website. That's a good thing. And if they can feel free to look me up on LinkedIn and message me, and I will be happy to. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Wonderful. So look you up on LinkedIn. Look you up on the web. Resilient Societies is the name of the organization, and you have a website, and I'm sure they can connect to all your other sources there and learn more about you and on LinkedIn. 

And then if you want to learn more about the AKF Global Leadership Program, you can go to Aga Khan Foundation Canada's website, akfc.ca, and I'm sure they have information there about the Global Leadership Program. I'll put a link in the episode notes, both for Resilient Societies and the Aga Khan Foundation Canada Leadership Program. 

Maiwand, thank you so much for your time today. We just barely, I think, scratched the surface, but you have been so open, forthcoming and sharing your journey. Thank you very much for spending this time, and I wish you all the best in your future adventures and passions and missions to make this world a more civil, democratic place. Thank you. 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: Thank you so much, Shakeel. It was great to talk to you again, and thank you for this opportunity as well. 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Take care. Have a great day. 

MAIWAND RAHYAB: You too. 

[MUSIC PAYING] 

SHAKEEL BHARMAL: Maiwand is a true testament to the power of resilience, courage, and purpose-driven leadership. As we close today's episode, I wanted to highlight three key leadership takeaways from our conversation. The first is how leadership starts with purpose and community. 

Maiwand's journey began with a simple act of civic engagement, an inspiration from a young friend who wanted to plant trees in Afghanistan. And that small action grew into a lifelong mission of empowering people to shape their societies. Leadership is not just about titles or authority. It is about a sense of purpose and the ability to build community around shared values. 

The second is that resilience is really the foundation of leadership in disruptive times. Throughout his career, Maiwand has faced war, political instability, and even threats of life. Instead of retreating, he found ways to adapt and take action. His story reminds us that leadership is about finding hope in the face of adversity, not waiting for the perfect conditions, but acting despite the uncertainty. 

And the third insight is really around collaboration and collective wisdom. One of Maiwand's biggest takeaways from the AKF Global Leadership Program was the power of collective wisdom, the idea that the most impactful solutions come from bringing diverse perspectives together. Whether working with grassroots activists, global organizations, or new Canadian leaders, Maiwand's emphasis is on the importance of dialogue, learning from each other, and building strong networks to create change. 

His journey is a powerful reminder that leadership is not about waiting for the right circumstances. It's about creating them. If you want to learn more about Resilient Societies, his organization, you can find them online, and I will post a link in the episode notes. Also, if you want to learn more about the Aga Khan Foundation Global Leadership Program, you can also look that up on akfc.ca. I'll also drop a link in the show notes. 

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Until next time, stay curious, stay resilient, and keep leading through disruption. Have a great day. 

Thank you for listening. Whether you're a regular listener or joining us for the first time, I want you to know how much I value your support. Your engagement with our content is what keeps us going. If you enjoyed what you heard today, please take a moment to rate, review, and share the episode. It truly helps us reach more listeners like you. 

To learn more about my work, you can connect with me on LinkedIn, visit oceanbluestrategic.com, summitvalue.com, or the Coaching Page at The Ivey Academy. Thanks to Lindsay Curtis, who helps me edit and produce this podcast, and an exceptional thanks to my favorite indie band, Late Night Conversations, for providing me the music for this podcast. Discover more about them on Instagram @lncconnected, and enjoy more of their music as we close out today's episode. 

[LATE NIGHT CONVERSATIONS, "CHAOS"] 

Well, I can't flow like this no more 

No, I can't make it 

But far behind my eyes 

Mediation, suffocation 

It'll break me 

Information in disguise 

But when your eyes finally found mine 

You were there 

But I'm defined by the chaos in my mind 

I believe what I perceive 

Is a weave tearing at the seams 

And I wonder what's behind 

And my ears are bleeding 

And the reason isn't the logic of the season 

Taking the pleasing from my soul 

And leaving me to die 

And I feel the lace in [INAUDIBLE] 

Like racing and stationary animation 

Taking me from the purpose of my life