Leading Responsibly: Towards a Global Community

In this episode:

In today’s volatile business landscape, leaders must navigate uncertainty with agility, integrity, and resilience.  In this episode developed in collaboration with NOVA School of Business and Economics, we bring together top faculty from both institutions to introduce the Leading Responsibly in Turbulent Times program:

• Kanina Blanchard, Assistant Professor of Management Communication and General Management at Ivey Business School
• Dusya Vera, Professor of Strategy at Ivey Business School and Executive Director of the Ian O. Ihnatowycz Institute for Leadership
• Ricardo Zozimo, Assistant Professor of Management and Organizations at NOVA School of Business and Economics

Together, our expert panel explores key themes, including ethical decision-making, leader character, and sustainable business strategies. Whether you're an executive, manager, or aspiring leader, this discussion offers valuable insights into leading with impact during times of change.

Other ways to listen:

• Apple Podcasts
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Episode Transcript

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SEAN ACKLIN GRANT: Welcome to Learning in Action, your source for contemporary insights, research, and expert advice on business. In our volatile landscape, leaders need to navigate uncertainty with agility, integrity, and personal resilience. But what does it mean to lead responsibly for a global community?

We're joined by Kanina Blanchard, Assistant Professor of Management, Communication, and General Management at Ivey Business School, Ducey Vera, Professor of Strategy at Ivey Business School and Executive Director of the Ihnatowycz Institute for Leadership, and Ricardo Zozimo, Assistant Professor of Management and Organizations at Nova School of Business and Economics in Lisbon. Join us as we discuss responsible leadership from ethical decision-making and leader character to sustainable business strategies that will help organizations shape a future where we thrive together. Let's get into it.

KANINA BLANCHARD: We are seeing disruption in every aspect of business and society. I don't need to tell you, but let me tell you-- economic and geopolitical shifts, political unrest, reframing of the international global order, climate challenges, and evolving societal expectations, not to mention what many are calling the EDI pendulum swing. Let's start with the title of this webinar and the title of this new program, talking about the concept of turbulence and how it is unique from what many of us remember from the early 2000s.

You might have remembered and you might even hear it today, VUCA, the world is volatile, it's uncertain, it's complex, and it's ambiguous. Now, it was back in the 2000s when the term "VUCA" really came to be known. And that was the timeframe in which responsible leadership as a framework emerged. And as we've seen over the last 20 years, the need and the call for leaders to take responsibility for more than just their pocketbooks and their company's position on the market has grown.

It grew, for example, in the 2008, 2009 financial crisis. There was the rise in the alarming impact of white collar crime. There have been more scandals than we can even mention, or count, probably. And of course, there was COVID. And throughout it, this Idea of responsibility kept coming forward. So the VUCA kept also, along with responsibility, kept coming to the fore.

But here we are in 2025 and now we're talking about turbulence. Let's think about, how is turbulence different than the word "VUCA" or is it? Let's start with you, Dusya. Perhaps you can share your thoughts on, what is unique about the turbulent times that we're now living in?

DUSYA VERA: Turbulence is about change, things changing rapidly, dynamism. Turbulence is also about uncertainty and ambiguity. Challenges that creates for leaders is decision-making under uncertainty and ambiguity. Right now, imagine the situation we are in 2025 with this global tariff war and things changing every day, very hard to predict what's going to happen tomorrow, or April 2, or whatever date you can imagine.

So leaders have to make decisions under uncertainty. And for that, one of the expertises that we have at Ivey is to talk about judgment for decision-making. We have a lot of research about, how do leaders make good decisions? And one of the answers is to pay attention to the character of leaders.

We are excited to bring that to this collaboration, in the sense of judgment for decision-making is critical. And that needs balance character. We see a lot of unbalanced leaders around the world right now. How can we work on balancing the character of leaders? We see a lot of uneven character. And I know we're going to go a little bit more into that in a minute.

Another characteristic of this turbulent time is the lack of trust. People are not dialoguing. People have a lot of fear. There is mistrust in governments, mistrust in business leaders. That creates a lot of skepticism. It's hard to collaborate in that way. And a third characteristic that I want to mention is the need for agility and improvisation. The pandemic also taught us that, sometimes, we have to toss our plants out the window. And we have to pivot. We have to be agile. We have to improvise.

But again, improvising and being agile and nimble also requires something from leaders in terms of their courage, their humility to see that they don't have the answers. And they have to try things, their humanity, to work with others, even if there are a lot of answers that are not available. And the patience to stay calm and don't go into complete panic attack in the middle of the situation. So those three things, I wanted to put on the table, Kanina.

KANINA BLANCHARD: When you and I were speaking earlier, you also talked about this feeling of fear that so many people are expressing today. And I don't think we should take that emotion lightly. Now, we're sitting here on one side of our wonderful planet. Our colleague, Ricardo, is sitting sort of halfway between here and there. And I'm wondering, Ricardo, from a European perspective, how, from a broader perspective, is turbulence manifesting? What are you hearing and seeing?

RICARDO ZOZIMO: Good afternoon from Lisbon. Turbulence is an interesting phenomena because it seems to me the characteristics of a long journey that has ended in this turbulence. And I think this long journey has involved climate change. So one of the big transformations that we are looking at is climate change and how climate change is affecting, not just our daily lives, but business.

If you think about the business of retail, for example, cheap pears and fruits, it's highly affected and substantially affected by climate change. So climate change is part of this idea of turbulence, of unpredictability that we are facing. But in Europe, specifically, the other phenomena that we're facing at the moment is the rise of AI. We are seeing, in this turbulent planet, a rise of artificial intelligence.

And what we see as Europeans is that we're stuck between AI led by the US big nationality companies, big companies, and China's AI with our links to both places, with our links also to India. And how do we bring all of this together in a way that we understand what's going to happen? And I believe Europe is in this interesting position, where we are in the middle of the world, or in the middle of the map as we usually draw it. And we're building bridges, but they're fragile bridges, with all of these players of these turbulent times.

So the role of technology is one key trait of turbulence. And maybe the final trait, and a hopeful trait, I hope, it's the role of companies. How are companies-- not governments, because governments are a little bit behind. How are companies responding to these times? I think that's one of the big discussions that we'll have in turbulent times. What is the contribution of companies?

KANINA BLANCHARD: I love the idea of building bridges and what it takes to build bridges. And I think that, that might even lead me to my next question, which is around responsibility. And who is going to help build the bridges, care for issues that are arising as a result of the environment? And who is going to be responsible, as we go through turbulence, including a lot of the tariff challenges that we're facing? So perhaps that you could get us started on this one, Ricardo. And then we'll go to Dusya. But this idea of, why does it matter that individuals take responsibility?

RICARDO ZOZIMO: I believe the fundamental argument for responsibility is a temporal argument. If you are responsible, you want things to work on the long-term. And we, as a world, we've tried and tested short-term solutions for many of our societal, environmental, social, economic issues. That did not resolve these issues.

So I believe responsibility is really about having different notion of time. And you see that in family businesses, for example. Family businesses often take responsible decisions, rather than short-term, very profitable decisions. Because what they want is to leave this long-term legacy. So for us here in Europe, responsibility is really about not just keeping the status quo, not maintaining our lifestyle, but really about rethinking the way we see long-term. So rethinking long-term is part of being responsible.

And people talk about this idea of leaving a better world for your kids. First of all, we need to ask ourselves, if we are going to leave a world, forget about a better world. So being responsible is really about the long-term perspectives, rather than short-term perspective.

KANINA BLANCHARD: It's a hopeful but also sobering comment, thank you. Dusya, how about you? Why is being responsible so incredibly important? Not that it hasn't been in the past, but in today's context, why is it that much more important?

DUSYA VERA: If you think about it, leaders make decisions, and decisions have consequences. And the problem is that decisions are being made, not paying attention to stakeholders. So responsible leadership reminds us that our decisions have consequences, like Ricardo says. We can also differentiate the short-term decisions from the long-term decisions.

And there is a lot of emphasis, sometimes in our business world, on the short-term. And we are, in that way, forgetting to take into consideration other stakeholders, the interconnectedness. The problem with irresponsible leadership is that it's very siloed. It only thinks about a few versus responsibility acknowledges that we are interconnected. And we do need to consider the consequences for everybody because also it's going to come back to us.

KANINA BLANCHARD: And aren't we seeing that today with the discussions on tariffs? It's very difficult for many, many people in many, many different places. But in some of the discussions we've had, Dusya, the reality is that what seems like a decision that's made at the government level, it's actually impacting the local store owner.

And I think we can't forget about that, especially in these times when we're running. We're just running to figure out what we're going to do for April the 2, or whichever date we want to pick on. But there's a lot of people going back to the word "fear." The word "responsibility," being responsible is age old. We could talk about it from the times of antiquity. We could talk about it from the times of the Bhagavad Gita and India back to China. Many great philosophers have talked about the word "responsible" and "responsibility". What does it mean to you, Ricardo?

RICARDO ZOZIMO: I think being a responsible leader. And the responsibility is really about going from decision-making to impact. As somebody that holds power, the power of any decision, what you're doing is to using that power wisely.

But we might have discussions of what it means to be wise. The layer that I would like to bring to this discussion is really about going from decision-making to impact. So every time I have a decision, how does that impact the people around me? How does that impact the people that are next to us? How does that impact the local community? How does that impact the big companies, the small companies, the family companies?

And so the word "impact" really captures a different layer of responsibility because it captures the idea that responsibility in action, rather than this idea of being wise. If I have a wise decision, if I discern a wise decision, what does this mean? And, Dusya, I think this is really about something that you said earlier, about this idea of understanding the role of stakeholders, the role of everyone that is around every decision.

I believe that with turbulence, the world for managers has become a lot more complex. And that's why we need these discussions. We need these discussions because the world 20 years ago, 25 years ago was a simpler world to navigate as managers, as leaders. I believe now, it's such a more complex world. Would you agree with that, Dusya?

DUSYA VERA: Yes, I agree. And when you were saying so nicely, decision-making to impact, I was thinking, impact on whom? Whose impact are we talking about? I think both parts of your equation, decision-making and impact are important to dive in. On the decision-making part, who do we need to be to make responsible decisions?

Looking at the person is, so many times, we focus on what leaders do but not on who we are. And also, the impact part, which you beautifully said, it is-- so many times, we think in a very narrow way about impact. The way we define impact may be very narrow versus thinking of impact in a broader way, in an interconnected way, in an ecosystems type of way, thinking that the whole system that is being impacted. Like Kanina's example, one tariff here is impacting everybody. It's meant to be a government policy, but it impacts in the small businesses and everybody.

So yes, I agree, Ricardo. And I think that's very important that we're having this conversation in terms, both, of understanding how decisions are made better. And for that, we need also to look at the people who are making the decisions-- and I know we're going to talk about this in other competencies-- but also their character and their commitment to lead. And on the impact side, yes, brought a broad perspective because all these stakeholders are interconnected.

So many times, we tell our students to remember happy employees make happy customers and they make happy shareholders. Even that simple interconnection, sometimes, people have trouble implementing it. That this idea that employees and clients and shareholders forget about the planet and so many other stakeholders, the community that are important to bring in.

KANINA BLANCHARD: And doesn't that bring us back to the impact-- to use your word, Ricardo-- of turbulence. We know these things. And yet, under pressure, under stress, and not just normal stress, but the kind of turbulence, the paradoxes that leaders are facing today, we forget some of those little things.

DUSYA VERA: On one side, I see the element of transcendence. Again, what Ricardo also mentioned, transcendence allows us to have a future orientation, to really think about our purpose and the purpose of our organization of our society, the purpose of our life. So being responsible, it's about responsibility, not only in the short-term, but in the very long-term, in the future orientation, the ability to control your response, it activates in me the idea of temperance also, Kanina, right? This idea of being a controlled and calm and thinking about being thoughtful, being mindful about your response, being in the moment about responding in a way that when we combine both, responding in a calm way to something that actually has a future orientation.

KANINA BLANCHARD: And I can't help looking through the notes here also is that there is this idea of being able, taking the word "responsible" and breaking it up into being responseable. And recognizing that as human beings, that we, perhaps, aren't always able to be as responsible as we wish we could. And that can come from so many different places and spaces. Simply being tired or overwhelmed, all of these things can affect our ability to be responseable.

And I think it's a wonderful analogy to make that acknowledging that we're also human and, sometimes, we can't be as calm as we wish we could be at home or at work. But keeping this idea that we have the ability to be responsible. And even in tough times, together, we can find a way to keep calm.

But let's talk a little bit about this idea of the what, the why, the when, the how, and the who of responsible leadership. One of the really special things about the framework of responsible leadership, what's different about being responsible is acknowledging that the whole idea of being a leader within community has really been brought forward by this way of thinking. So many times, we think of ourselves as leaders in business in other sectors. But it's as if we are outside of society, we are outside of community, we are outside of the environment.

But what responsible leadership talks about, one of the fundamental tenets, is that we have to imagine ourselves and see ourselves as part of community, as part of the society. So it's not that we're business giving money to a needy agency within society, but that we are part of that society. And our decisions affect everything from the grass that's growing on the ground to the students who are going to school. And that's a very different way of thinking.

The other aspect around being a responsible leader is recognizing that we can all-- so the who, we can all be responsible. You don't have to wait till the time you're a CEO. It's when you're a parent. It's when you're a child. It's who you choose to privilege in the moment. I love the analogy of a child in a candy store.

And there's a story about a child, who all the kids are lined up outside the candy store, and they want to get in, and the door's open, and a couple of kids fall down. In that moment, every child has the opportunity to run to the candy booth that they want to get candy from. Or they can stop and lend a hand and be responsible to someone else, even though, perhaps, it might not be the fastest, going back to time, win for them. And so I think that when we think about responsible leadership, it is different. It comes from stakeholder theory.

So many of us are familiar with the idea of stakeholder theory. But it says that in the moment where you have a decision to make, you need to think about all the stakeholders, not just the bottom line, not just what's easy, or profitable, or efficient, or effective, but what really takes into consideration as many people as we can. So if we think about that as a little bit different than other forms or styles of leadership, I think, Dusya, the role of both commitment, as well as character, really come to the fore. And then maybe we could talk a little later about competencies. But talk to us about the importance of commitment as well as character.

DUSYA VERA: A commitment is about the commitment to lead, knowing that leadership requires a lot of engagement with multiple stakeholders, and requires sacrifice and then character. When you were mentioning this responsibility to others, even the kid who wants candy but sees another kid, who may not be a friend, what does the kid do? We need more humanity activating more humanity in business and in leadership.

Sometimes, people say, there is no room for compassion in business. There is no room for humanity in business. But that's not true. We have a shared humanity. That's, at the end, who we are. We are human. But so many times, the drive, like you said, for profits and for financial impact is overweighted. It's a lot of emphasis on drive and on risky decisions. Courage, but the type of courage that is maybe recklessness in terms of just deciding things out of the blue without thinking about the consequences.

There is a lack of accountability, accountability to others, accountability. Like Ricardo was saying, who's going to be affected by this? Who's going to feel the impact? So yes, being responsible requires us to balance, yes, the drive to do things with the temperance to be patient and know that we have to wait for the right time and the right place to do things.

And yes, we need to be courageous and brave in making decisions because innovation, so many times, comes from trying things. But at the same time, we also need humility and know that we don't know all the answers. The responsible leaders, so many times, may be thinking, oh, I don't know how to balance all these things. I foresaw the humility to accept I need to talk to others. I need advice.

We need to actually collaborate, the collaboration that really is based on dialogue and not on somebody imposing actions on others. So yes, I completely agree. And transcendence, Ricardo mentioned it before, the long-term, that requires actually being inspired about a future perspective of how the world could be a better place for everybody.

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KANINA BLANCHARD: I'm going to shift to Ricardo with one other key concept. Ricardo, when we were visiting about the upcoming program, you raised language that really, really resonated with me. Which was that being responsible is recognizing ourselves as being in service to something greater than ourselves. Could you maybe talk a little bit about how you frame responsible leadership as embodying this concept of being in service to others?

RICARDO ZOZIMO: When you think about a leader, do you want the leader to be in service? And immediately, you switch from this image of a leader to a follower. So it's quite difficult to reconcile the image of service with the image of a leader. Our research and our observations of the most interesting leaders have shown us the opposite. Which is servant leaders, leaders that serve often, go beyond what they thought was possible because they're not going alone. They're going with all these people behind them.

But it takes more time. And one of the issues, which is, how do we deal with the temporality of decision-making? Because servant leaders, leaders that serve, acknowledge that serving is slower than just imposing. And once you reconcile with this, once you, as a leader, believe and understand that, what do you want? Do you want fast, short-term decisions, or long-term, more impactful decisions? And that you can navigate this.

Because sometimes, you need fast decisions and short-term, no problem with that. But sometimes, you also need the long-term impact. So how do you reconcile with this? This is where we see leaders really flourishing into different roles, Kanina. And I believe this is when they are leaders, that's what they want, really. What they want is they can explain and achieve places that they were not able to achieve on their own. That they can describe ambitions and dreams to others and others can follow and achieve those together. But that takes time.

So I see this idea of responsible serving leader as somebody that goes beyond what they thought was possible. The other dimension, maybe just to wrap up, was if then you're a serving leader, who are you serving? Because this is so important. And we ask our leaders, are you a servant leader? Yes, so who are you serving? Can you answer this question?

I often give the example of hope. There's two types of leaders in relation to hope. There's the leader that injects hope into the system, that is able to be a leader that gives hope into their organization, into the system of organizations. And there's a lot of leaders that take hope out of the system.

And this is quite important. What are they serving, not just to who they are, but who are they serving to and who? And this is also a space of discussion that we want to bring, rather than, you should do this as a leader, you should do that, this type of more important, refined questions that we want to call attention to.

KANINA BLANCHARD: There's a famous quote by an athlete who once said, if all I'm remembered as is a basketball player, then I've really not accomplished my goals. And I think somewhere in there is this idea that there is an end proposition in who we can be. Yes, we can serve, and we must reach commitments that our organizations have set. But there is an end. And that end can be, perhaps, the most exciting drive for us as human beings.

When it comes to leading responsibly, should we start by making thoughtful choices in our personal lives before applying them in business? How do these daily decisions that happen on a personal and a professional level really shape our long-term leadership, especially in turbulent times? What are your thoughts about applying this thinking personally, professionally, one before the other, at the same time? How do we do that?

DUSYA VERA: Who we are matters. And it matters at the family level, in our house, and wherever we are in the professional level. Sometimes when we talk about leadership, we remind our students that leadership is not just leadership of others. Sometimes, usually, people think leading is about leading others or leading organizations-- so you are responsible for the strategy and the culture and the systems and all that. But it's also leadership of the self.

We emphasize that a lot, you have to start by leading yourself. That requires a lot of self-developing self-awareness, which is not an easy thing to have. It's a muscle that we need to develop. How self-aware am I of my strengths, of my biases, or of my weaknesses, of my preferences?

And then a realizing leading the self means also, again, working on, who am I? And sometimes people may say, oh, but I can be a different person at home and at school and at work and in the supermarket, but that's really exhausting. It's really exhausting to be different people in different places. It takes a lot of energy.

Working on who you are, with the language that we use at Ivey, that means working on your character, working on your judgment for decision-making on your humanity, your humility, your drive, your courage, your temperance, your transcendence, your justice, your integrity, working on all those muscles and being able to make decisions that are wise-- like Ricardo said, you want to have some practical wisdom in our decisions-- is going to help at home, for sure, with our kids, with our spouses, at the office. And it's also going to help at any levels. Presidents, prime ministers, leaders in the world with very strong judgment, with very wise judgment, how that would impact both personally, yes, but also professionally.

KANINA BLANCHARD: So we've talked a little bit about time. So being able to say, hold on a minute, this is an important decision. I can't give you an answer in 5 minutes. And how many times do we hear, but I can get the answer in 5 seconds from Gemini or whatever your favourite ChatGPT is? But the reality is, is that time is one of them.

Another one is when do I interject? Am I the right person to interject? And so there's so many questions that we can learn to ask ourselves. And these are skills. These are competencies that, on a daily basis, we can absolutely start to practice these to help us end up making better long-term decisions.

How do we respond to the prevalence of disinformation on social media and even legacy media? Because, as you said, you brought up AI. How do we be responsible when we are inundated with so much information and it's not easy to know if it's right or wrong? What do we do? What do you think, Ricardo?

RICARDO ZOZIMO: As responsible leaders, the first move, or maybe the only possible move, is to accept the fact that no one alone is going to face and win against ChatGPT. So what I observe in my research on social innovation, for example, a lot of social organizations are not reacting to ChatGPT, or Gemini, or Copilot. They're not really reacting. They're using, but they don't really understand how this is going to change, fundamentally change, what's going to be their actions in the future.

So I believe what we need more as responsible leaders is connection to others that care about the same issues that we care. So if technology is one of them, you should connect to others that are rethinking the role of technology and the role of fake news, for example, in our world. And there's lots of people doing interesting work around fake news.

As a responsible leader, the first step is to accept where I can really make a change and which spaces I cannot make a change on my own. Understanding that then makes you link to others and makes you engage in different types of combinations and conversations and build bridges with other people that have the same concerns. We talk a lot about the pervasive role of technology.

But I'm sure everybody that has sons or daughters, they can empathize with this, usually, the mobile phone also goes to the toilet room. God knows, to do what? And these type of things, they show us the pervasive role of technology in our lives. But we can engage in the conversation of, what is fake news? Why should we care? Why should we link with others? And together, make that part of the world a little bit more aligned with our values and what we think is important as transparency, deep research, those type of issues.

KANINA BLANCHARD: The myth of one-stop shopping, that you can go to one Instagram, one reel, and get all the right answers is probably the first place to start, isn't it, is to realize that there are many sources of information. And you and I have chatted about the very essence of democracy, which was based on the idea that individual citizens would do the work that it takes to understand and then make decisions based on understanding. I probably haven't said that very eloquently.

But what I'm hearing from you is have multiple sources of information, recognize there is-- even recognizing that, perhaps, what you're reading may not be accurate or real is an important place to start. And then who do you speak with? Which sources do you believe? And doing that hard work. Is that a fair way to paraphrase your wonderful comment?

RICARDO ZOZIMO: Absolutely. And I would add as well that there are artificial intelligence engines that show you the sources. And perhaps, you should work with those, rather than the ones that hide the sources.

KANINA BLANCHARD: What is one reflective question that we can ask ourselves, other than how will this decision impact our partners? Can we ask other questions that will help us become more responsible leaders?

RICARDO ZOZIMO: This is all about empathy. If I was on the other end of this decision, would I take the same decision? Could I justify this decision? We've got a tool company. I was just in the US recently. And I saw around New York, that there's lots of tolls, new tolls, to avoid people going into Manhattan. Most of those tolls have no human beings working. They read the license plate and they send you-- if you don't have one of those identifiers, they just magically find your address and they send you the bill directly to your email.

And we had a similar situation here in Portugal, where the big toll company that manages all the tolls introduced technology, and they had to fire 40% of their workforce. And the question was, how can we do this responsibly? What is the responsible way of-- we know we still going to fire 40% of our workforce, but what is the responsible way to do this? They advertise, they said to all the workers, we're going to open-- in the future, we're going to open these positions. If you want to apply to these positions and convince us that you've got the attitude and the mindset, we'll train you. So that was step number one.

Step number two was do not sack people from the same family. Do not fire people that are from the same family. So if you fire a husband and the wife also works in the company, make a commitment to keep the wife. And a number of other rules that they come up with to answer, exactly, that question. What else can I do if I was in this situation? What is the best way of doing this?

DUSYA VERA: Ricardo, what you just said reminds me, there is one question that I have seen that says, what is the most human-centered thing to do? When you said, this reminds me of empathy, what would be the most human-focused thing to do versus profit focus but the human focus?

And the other question that came to my mind, as you guys were talking, is in the institute for leadership, we have a mantra, that a professor, Mary Croson, created years ago. And that, again, it focuses on the daily practices that you mentioned earlier which is, who am I becoming while I am busy doing? Or who am I becoming while I am busy making these decisions? This idea is just reinforcing the idea that every day, in every decision we make, we are becoming somebody.

KANINA BLANCHARD: This whole conversation reminds me of a wonderful boss I once had. I'll name him Jim Giroux. And we went through something very similar in an organization I worked for, Ricardo. And one of the things he would say is, to be responsible, you've got to make hard decisions. But it's how you make the decision that counts.

And he did something very, very similar with a very large group of people that he had to lay off at a time. And that has stayed with me. And that brings me to the program that all three of us, as well as two other amazing colleagues and the wonderful folks behind this program we're putting together for June, is that in order to be able to be more responsible, not thinking about being a responsible leader as a badge that we're ever going to get, but in our quest to become leaders who choose to be more responsible, and that choice comes with it joy, it also comes with us challenge. It's not easy.

But joining both Dusya and Ricardo and I are our wonderful colleagues, Mazi Raz from the Ivey Business School and Milton D'Souza. And we are so excited about this program. Our hope is to really start with the idea of commitment, to start with your purpose of why you want to be an agent of change, and not just an agent of change. As Dusya said, agents of change can be reckless, or they can be responsible.

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SEAN ACKLIN GRANT: Thank you for tuning in to Learning in Action. We'd like to Thank. Our guests, Kanina, Dusya, and Ricardo. Learning in Action is produced by Rachel Jackson, Joanna Shepherd, and me, Sean Acklin Grant. Editing and audio mix by Carol Eugene Park. If you liked this episode, make sure to subscribe. You can also find more information by visiting IveyAcademy.com, or follow us on social media @IveyAcademy for more content, upcoming events, and programs. We hope you'll join us again soon.

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